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Pender Harbour BBS / LOCAL ISSUES: Decisions and situations that affect all of us in Pender Harbour. / The Dump Debate - Transfer Station or Status Quo?
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Silas
Member
# Posted: 28 Sep 2009 21:17


How about trying for a lot less consumption and garbage, for everyone? (PH AND Sechelt)

Isn't this what we should be aiming for, rather than planning on needing dumps just as much (or more) for decades to come?

I really like the sound of whiteguy's prediction that dumps will be replaced by a "big recycling factory" and roadside collection. Maybe this is where the local contracts, employment and public priorities will be in the future. (Shouldn't it be where they are now?)

If we're really talking about "zero waste" on the Sunshine Coast, maybe Area A and its contractors should be looking at expanding recycling opportunities rather than expanding the landfill.

The best way to avoid the situation that Roadranger describes, of having to ship garbage abroad, is to make less garbage. Isn't it?

I'm WELL aware of the debates of the past, just having doubts about how well they apply to the future...

dynagirl
Member
# Posted: 28 Sep 2009 21:28


I dunno....I kinda liked being able to go to the dump when I was a kid, and watching the bears feeding. The bears liked it too!! It kept them happy and healthy, it gaves us entertainment as well. No one got hurt.

Ah....the great debate...almost as good as the grasshopper thread.

chupacabra
Member
# Posted: 29 Sep 2009 09:04


Si, quit talking sense. You are confusing the debate.

It would be interesting to see what the difference is in overall garbage vs recycled waste in small communities compared to places where recycling is made easy like where I live. I just have to take the elevator to the parkade to do most of my recycling and throw out the garbage. I have always believed in laziness of mankind so if you want to make real change, make it easy, and don't give options.

Roadranger
Member
# Posted: 2 Oct 2009 11:02


It would be good egg on everybodies face if they put in the transfer station let the SCRD convince you oh its going to be cheaper.

When the dust settles and the costs come out and people start finding out the cost to truck garbage to Sechelt has become expensive. Oh look its 10 dollars a bag to get rid of garbage now.

Oh well you were brainwashed to think the transfer station was a better option. People will be whining and crying.

Sprite
Member
# Posted: 2 Oct 2009 18:26


I thought I better get in on this tread. First the environmental thing is a red herring. The SCRD doesn't give a damn about this right now ,they are going to owe alot of money to upgrade the Sechelt Landfill in the near future, the settling ponds are too small and overflowing into CAL's Pit and they aren't happy about this. CAL wants action now. The other thing is that the illegel dumping is bad now, how much worse will it get! Take a stroll up a Forestery road sometime.

Roadranger
Member
# Posted: 3 Oct 2009 01:44


I would think people against the local landfill should take a trip to the sechelt landfill and see what kind of adventure it is.

For one you have a 30 minute drive just to get to the start of Dusty road everything seems okay till you climb the "Hill" you better hope you don't stall that road is steep. So you climb the 1 kilometer or more up this road yes its paved then you get up to the top. The landfill has a scale you wait in line. They have bins like what is in our landfill.

Now its time to go down the hill I hope you got good brakes lol. So to take a load to Sechelt in your pickup truck you lost 1.5-2 hours you have burned 5-10 dollars in fuel. If you have more than a pick up load it will take you 4 hours to haul away the junk from your house. With the landfill here what is it 15 minutes away from most areas.

They say you will still beable to dump what you can now if the local landfill turns into a transfer station. I can't see how. What if you own a truck with a dump deck like I do you can't dump into a bin. As I have said before you can't put anything large into a compactor bin.

You can with open top bins like what is in the dump now but it doesn't take too much of that and the bin is full. Then you can't have the bin overfull ie things sticking above the box sides (40 yard bins).

To haul the garbage down the road its going to be a pain the ass each bin has to be fully tarped so any loose stuff doesn't blow out. You really can't be overweight unless the garbage gets wet.

I don't know but there are lots of lies out there saying it will be cheaper to haul it to Sechelt.

Myrwin
Member
# Posted: 3 Oct 2009 15:53 - Edited by: Myrwin


Leeboy said it best:
Harbour Spiel, October 2009

Sprite
Member
# Posted: 3 Oct 2009 16:37


Didn't we vote 83% in favour of expansion?

Myrwin
Member
# Posted: 3 Oct 2009 16:59


Can't remember the percentage, but it was over 80%, certainly a number that didn't suggest any difficulty with the decision. But, the SCRD will do what it wants to do, regardless of the vote. I don't understand why they even bothered, unless they thought the community would fall in love with a transfer station idea and then it would look like they actually give a rat's ass about what we want up here in Pender Harbour.

Silas
Member
# Posted: 3 Oct 2009 20:28


Leeboy does say it best:
"Assuming waste goes down through dedicated recycling services over the next six decades and we continue to expand every 30 years or so, we might have an environmentally reliable landfill for the next 100 years. Or more."

It all begins with enhancing recycling services. This needs to be done Coast-wide but keeps getting naysayed, further reviewed, or forgotten while we argue over who's taken the biggest dump.

The "assuming waste goes down" is the key component here. This SHOULD be something we can assume but the recycling services, infrastructure, co-operation and even adequate promotion are not in place yet. I'm not against the dump, for a time I practically grew up there, but people should be taking more pride in GRIPS than in a landfill.

Perhaps if Area A took the lead on expanding recycling, it could also keep its dump, and show the rest of the Coast a thing or two at the same time. Probably too late for this...

Sprite
Member
# Posted: 3 Oct 2009 21:06


I agree with Silas, recycling is the answer, but I'm really sick of having the SCRD in my pocket because they have something to pay for down south. Did anyone here Darren Inkster last week bitching about Area A not paying there fair share for the Sechelt library. Hey Darren we have a library up here, granted not as fancy as Sechelt's,but we didn't pay a million dollars for it either.

Roadranger
Member
# Posted: 4 Oct 2009 00:37


I think its time for Pender to go on their own.

Sprite
Member
# Posted: 4 Oct 2009 10:53


Harbour Spiel is a good read, but i think Whiteguy said it best.

chupacabra
Member
# Posted: 5 Oct 2009 10:53


snipped from the Spiel

Itís a valuable resource to our future community that might benefit the entire Sunshine Coast someday.But once closed it will never be allowed to reopen. What if, in the next 100 years or so, Area A decides to incorporate? [i][/i]

What would happen if Pender incorporated? Presumably the garbage would keep going to Sechelt, but would the SCRD then be able to just charge a fee of their choosing? Could the GB landfill not be re-opened if it proved to be the better choice at that time, or is that out of the question? Can't Eric get something in return since this is clearly unpopular in Area A and it appears to be a done deal (source JR)?

Ya I know, all questions, but I am learning a lot about this issue here.

Myrwin
Member
# Posted: 5 Oct 2009 11:51 - Edited by: Myrwin


Area A is now so entrenched in SCRD functions that, even with incorporation, it would be difficult if not impossible for the community to operate autonomously. The economic advantage window of opportunity is closed.

The dump isn't a new issue. Nearly 20 years ago, Jim Gurney (then RD board chair) announced to our APC with director Gordon Wilson that the province had refused to renew our landfill permit. Jim Tyner voiced his skepticism, which led to the discovery that the province didn't have any interest in our dump; it was the SCRD board who wanted the transfer station.

The question was raised then too, "couldn't we just re-open it in the future if it works out to be a bad idea?" but the province doesn't easily, if ever, issue new landfill permits.

Eric believes the community wants a transfer station.

Myrwin
Member
# Posted: 5 Oct 2009 11:56


Sprite, I think the library bitch wasn't from Darren Inkster but one of the Sechelt council. In Pender Harbour, we have a "reading centre," not a library. There's a big difference in services, and upgrading to a library would cost a fortune.

chupacabra
Member
# Posted: 5 Oct 2009 12:09


Area A is now so entrenched in SCRD functions that, even with incorporation, it would be difficult if not impossible for the community to operate autonomously. The economic advantage window of opportunity is closed.


Awesome (note - heavy sarcasm). It's still worth it though IMO.

The dump isn't a new issue. Nearly 20 years ago, Jim Gurney (then RD board chair) announced to our APC with director Gordon Wilson that the province had refused to renew our landfill permit. Jim Tyner voiced his skepticism, which led to the discovery that the province didn't have any interest in our dump; it was the SCRD board who wanted the transfer station.

Ya, I remember the dump debate of days gone by. The SCRD does seem to follow a pattern wouldn't you say.

Eric believes the community wants a transfer station.

I assume he is aware of this forum?

Sprite
Member
# Posted: 5 Oct 2009 18:00


Ok I was a little fired up at the time of posting that message Myrwin. So that's it, incorporation of our area is out of the question? Is Eric aware of this outcry and is he voicing it to the other directors? Probably doesn't matter someone will start a new dump somewhere else around here anyways!

dar7yl
Member
# Posted: 6 Oct 2009 02:37


Who is this library bitch anyway ?)

Myrwin
Member
# Posted: 6 Oct 2009 09:53


bitch - v.
darsevenal - obj.

Jane Reid
Member
# Posted: 7 Oct 2009 00:58


Chupacabra good thing someone remembers the dump issue of past! If it weren't for Jim Tyner the transfer station would have been a done deal some 14 yrs. ago. Gordon Wilson, Jim Gurney, and the SCRD told us that the dump was full, and the Province had made the decision to close it, and there was nothing we could do to save it. I was on the APC, as was Jim Tyner, and Jim told us that only with the SCRD's support would they close the dump. I entered the race to become the Regional Director, (with Jim's support) and won the bid, as the dump issue was paramount at that time. When elected, I applealed the provinces decision (supported by the RD), and was granted an appeal hearing in the community hall in Madeira Park. The hearing was WELL attended, locals voiced their opinion, and the Province reversed their decision to close the dump.
Unfortunately, the dump issue has nothing to do with incorporation. Solid waste is a RD responsibilty. Even if we were to incorporate, it would remain an RD function. Sechelt nor Gibson's has a solid waste function...it is an RD function mandated by the Province.
Incorporation is another thing. I beleive it was a good idea back when, we almost made it! In my opinion, if we had of incorporated we'd be smiling today.
Now, I'm not sure. Whiteguy and JR have their opinions, but if they look at PH today, I think they would agree (in private only) that they made a mistake by not supporting it.
As a past director, I hold my head high...remembering the fight to keep the dump, and the long process to get PH to the polls to vote for or against incorporation. My only regret, is that I couldn't convince enough of PH residents to support incorporation.

whiteguy
Member
# Posted: 7 Oct 2009 15:39


I remember dump closure being a "done deal" 14 years ago, and also twice before that. The dump at first was located only about 200 ft. in from Garden Bay Road, and when that site got full was the first time the SCRD wanted to truck the garbage to Sechelt, saying this is what the governmentment advised. Which was probably true--the ministry is generally against small dumps just because they're an administration headache for them. The second closure threat came in about 1975, when they closed the dumps at Halfmoon Bay and Gibsons. I went out and got 300 names on a petition and also put in a bid to run the dump at half the cost they had been paying Dick Derby to truck his equipment up from Gibsons twice a week. They didn't accept my bid at first, but the Inspector of Municipalities ordered them to. That's how I got to be dump maintenance guy. It was the last thing in the world I wanted to do right then, but I kept doing it on the cheap for 5 years just so they wouldn't have an excuse to close it. My brother Don carries on today on much the same basis--he bids low and tries to keep the dump viable. But since the SCRD decided each particle of garbage has to be weighed before it is buried and the SCRD has put full time staff in the dump and has supervisors to supervise the staff, operating costs have bloated to the point the actual disposal of waste now accounts for barely half the total operating cost. Most of it is for SCRD record-keeping and guys driving around in SCRD pickups. So it's more than a little ironic the SCRD's main case for closing the dump is because the cost is too high.

Silas is correct in saying the big issue is reducing waste in the future. (He must have had smart parents.) But is this something that can only be done in Sechelt? Pender's fight in waste management as in health care and recreation and so many things has been to make the case we can do it ourselves more effectively than by paying Sechelt-Gibsons to do it for us. They said we could never have our own pool. They said we could never have our own clinic. They said we couldn't have out own golf course and ball field. We have continually had to defend our highschool. In every case we were told that these functions could only be done right if they were centralized down south. But we stubbornly went ahead and showed them we could do it ourselves and kept building a viable community here, rather than a client community as the southern areas would like. Same with waste management. We have already proven we can do it better--GRIPS, our recycling depot is thriving while the attempt to run a big centralized depot down south failed (remember SCRAPS?). If we stick to our guns we can have a zero waste operation here in Pender and Pender people working in it instead of sending our taxes down to Dusty Road to employ Sechelt people. I know where Jim Tyner would have stood on this question, and Jane Reid. I know where John stood on it. I just hope Eric will prove as dedicated to defending Area A autonomy. We should all encourage him.

Myrwin
Member
# Posted: 8 Oct 2009 08:48


Eric Graham, Area A Director - 604-883-9061.

John Rees
# Posted: 23 Oct 2009 16:57


Good "Letter to the Editor " in this week`s "Reporter" Whiteguy.
Did you also notice that the Gibsons Council rejected outright the proposed RGS, [Regional Growth Srategy ] as forecast.?

chupacabra
Member
# Posted: 26 Oct 2009 09:40


Incorporation is another thing. I beleive it was a good idea back when, we almost made it! In my opinion, if we had of incorporated we'd be smiling today. Now, I'm not sure.

What makes it less attractive today? I do agree that looking back, incorporation wasn't just a good idea, but the perfect time, but has it changed so much that it is no longer a good idea, because as a long term decision it still seems like Pender would be better situated in 20 years if it were to happen today?

whiteguy
Member
# Posted: 26 Oct 2009 18:06


Did you also notice that the Gibsons Council rejected outright the proposed RGS, [Regional Growth Srategy ] as forecast.?

What does this have to do with the price of fish?

John Rees
# Posted: 26 Oct 2009 20:01


Not really that much Whiteguy, unless one had followed the reason that the SCRD had used to stall an application for a phase one study for this area.
Just being polite, but what the hell does the price of fish have to do with this issue.?

Sprite
Member
# Posted: 27 Oct 2009 21:16


Has anyone heard from Eric about this issue lately. I'm wondering what the SCRD has up their sleeve next, no burning perhaps?

whiteguy
Member
# Posted: 28 Oct 2009 17:34


Just being polite, but what the hell does the price of fish have to do with this issue.?

It's just a saying my mother used to use...I wasn't up on the RGS and was hoping for a bit more on what is at stake for us there. Should we be concerned?

Has anyone heard from Eric about this issue lately.


I haven't talked to him lately but the last time I did he was fully buying the case the District staff is making for the dump expansion being more costly and badder for the environment, while remaining open to expansion if that is what people want. I gather he buys the District's claim that their own poll showing over 80% in favour of expansion was not accurate because only 10% of the people responded. Actually I think 10% is a pretty good response for a mail-in poll and the Regional District thinks so too when it comes out the right way. They ran two polls last summer, ours and one on blue box recycling on the lower coast. Both got about a 10% response, but the blue box vote went the way they wanted (by a narrow margin) so they thought that poll was great and defended it against critics. Ours went the wrong way (by a wide margin) so it was no good. Apparently they are looking for a different way of measuring opinion that will get the result they want. It will be unveiled at a meeting at the District office Nov. 5 at 1:30. Come and see democracy in action!

Sprite
Member
# Posted: 31 Oct 2009 22:12


I didn't see any mention of the dump in Eric's Harbour Spiel column!

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